tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post9148191171701235393..comments2023-09-15T03:09:51.119-07:00Comments on the bumpidee reader: Venice BeatsTobi Vailhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02052149126555935296noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-63803542500109829452008-09-23T00:59:00.000-07:002008-09-23T00:59:00.000-07:00Well, I looked for the Traber book in both my loca...Well, I looked for the Traber book in both my local library and school library and neither had it. I searched online through WorldCat and found it's pretty much only at large university libraries. The book has a list price of $65, so you know no one is going to spend that much unless they have to. It's frustrating when books are only published for students and academics. And it's frustrating decompositionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16415623202308256291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-4657878557539524412008-08-15T00:26:00.000-07:002008-08-15T00:26:00.000-07:00A link to more info about Traber's book in case an...A link to <A HREF="http://us.macmillan.com/whitenessothernessandtheindividualismparadoxfromhucktopunk" REL="nofollow">more info about Traber's book</A> in case anyone else is interested.decompositionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16415623202308256291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-51674747420912449802008-08-15T00:01:00.000-07:002008-08-15T00:01:00.000-07:00Thanks for the link. I dug deeper and found that ...Thanks for the link. I dug deeper and found that the reference in the blog to self-marginalization is attributed to writer/literary critic Daniel Traber. I googled him and found out he wrote a book last year titled <I>Whiteness, Otherness, and the Individualism Paradox from Huck to Punk</I>.<BR/><BR/>Here's the description:<BR/>"Traber reexamines the practice of self-marginalization in decompositionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16415623202308256291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-47384288373149455032008-08-14T23:13:00.000-07:002008-08-14T23:13:00.000-07:00also, as far as Romanticism and DIY go--what I was...also, as far as Romanticism and DIY go--what I was specifcally talking about was the Romantic idea of the suffering artist; that if you suffer, your art will be better...but what DIY often makes me think of is Puritanism...so where do the two meet? In literature, I'd suggest Nathaniel Hawthorne, maybe Herman Melville.<BR/>this is stuff I've been thinking about a lot in the past 10 years, still Tobi Vailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052149126555935296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-26139216187186414532008-08-14T23:10:00.000-07:002008-08-14T23:10:00.000-07:00hi sharon, check this out blog link if you scroll ...hi sharon, check this out <A HREF="http://blogs.terrorware.com/geoff/tag/punk/" REL="nofollow"><BR/>blog link</A> <BR/>if you scroll down, there's a post about 'white minority' and 'self-marginalization' and DIY<BR/>i think it's written by someone from that band Defiance Ohio. my friend rana sent it to me awhile backTobi Vailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052149126555935296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-59396120710193736532008-08-14T20:02:00.000-07:002008-08-14T20:02:00.000-07:00I think what surprised me most in reading about th...I think what surprised me most in reading about the Venice West beats is that I had no idea that a lot of the ideas about DIY and non-materialism that became popular in the '60s counterculture and with punks stemmed from the Southern California bohemians. And now that you bring up the link to Romanticism, I'm even more intrigued. Why is it that the DIY and underground ethic is so similar to decompositionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16415623202308256291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-8915541825572293562008-08-14T00:03:00.000-07:002008-08-14T00:03:00.000-07:00it's interesting to trace it back to romanticism a...it's interesting to trace it back to romanticism and the suffering of the artist making the work great...as the beats were working in that tradition (with maybe the exception of william s burroughs?)...and then to trace that to the 60's counterculture, which of course was influential on punk and 80's underground DIY...but what i often here, is a post-90's 'there's no such thing as selling out, Tobi Vailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052149126555935296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-9842640039983330482008-08-12T15:08:00.000-07:002008-08-12T15:08:00.000-07:00Yes, exactly! Philomene Long, one of the few fema...Yes, exactly! <A HREF="http://www.emptymirrorbooks.com/thirdpage/phlmbio.html" REL="nofollow">Philomene Long</A>, one of the few female poets/artists to come out of Venice West, explains in an online interview:<BR/><BR/>"The Venice Beats upheld the dream of salvation through creativity, wrote poems for the act of writing itself, had no mind for publishing; were determined to stay underground. decompositionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16415623202308256291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7631060751308358987.post-27700575873752424422008-08-12T13:13:00.000-07:002008-08-12T13:13:00.000-07:00Hi Decomposition, welcome to the Bumpidee Reader! ...Hi Decomposition, welcome to the Bumpidee Reader! Thanks for taking the time to write. I take it "dedicated poverty" is a form of self-marginalization, where the artist is encouraged to revoke the material world and economic prosperity for a more "purified existence" of suffering, which would make their art more legitimate re: the crede of Romanticism? Is that right? I'd like to talk more about Tobi Vailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02052149126555935296noreply@blogger.com